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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 30, 2011 9:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Hey, Guys, I Finally Figured It Out!

Hey, it just hit me.

We're the subject of a sociology experiment!

Here's the research premise: Virtual communities are an agreement to suspend disbelief. They rely on an appearance of reality -- e.g., that posters are anonymous but represent real individuals -- but of course everyone knows that the emperor could be naked. I could be a 16-year-old boy. WT could be a British grandma. Cliff could be posting from the Sea Shepherd. So there's an unstated acceptance of certain "rules of the game" and that a virtual persona will be a reflection of the real person. Otherwise there's no purpose to the interaction, since folks don't tend to be interested in having conversations in a hall of mirrors.

But what happens if you interject into a virtual community the appearance of deception? How does the community, which relies for its appeal (and existence) on the idea that the virtual reflects the real, cope with what is essentially a threat to its existence AS a virtual community? How would such a community, particularly in an essentially unmoderated environment (like the IA), "self-police" -- confirm its own rules, determine and reveal what is happening, exclude and include, behave like a real community, etc?

OK, no, I don't think this is really an experiment. (Though it would sure be funny if someone -- WT, perhaps? Elbow? I'm looking for a science type here -- popped out from behind the curtain and said, "Bingo! Good job! Experiment, over!")

But it certainly does function as IF it's an experiment. And I'm sure it serves to illustrate ... something.

Incidentally, I read these things in the morning (it's currently 10 a.m.-ish) and got up today to find NO interaction on ANYTHING but the Kochaballoo. I hope this is cuz most (real) folks were out having a nice Saturday.

Now back to the regularly scheduled programming and/or social experiment and/or implosion in the hall of mirrors.




This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2011-07-31 04:22:32

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Jul 30, 2011 9:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey, Guys, I Finally Figured It Out!

Ya think???

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 30, 2011 9:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey, Guys, I Finally Figured It Out!

Obviously I'm being satirical, but I do think it reveals some interesting facets of the online world. It could be utilized as a case study in some academic research. Actually observing it is rather less interesting, of course, and a lot more sad.

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Poster: Jacky Hughes Date: Jul 30, 2011 9:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey, Guys, I Finally Figured It Out!

No, you are right. It's all being run by the mice: We are all part of a huge super-computer.

The answer to life the universe and everything is 42.

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Poster: Jack o' Roses Date: Jul 30, 2011 9:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey, Guys, I Finally Figured It Out!

6 × 9 = 42, that is







(using math in base 13)

This post was modified by Jack o' Roses on 2011-07-31 04:53:26

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 30, 2011 9:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey, Guys, I Finally Figured It Out!

Exactly! Good job, "Jacky." Never seen you be quick on the draw before.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Jul 30, 2011 9:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey, Guys, I Finally Figured It Out!

you mean 420...aye??

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Jul 30, 2011 9:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey, Guys, I Finally Figured It Out!

Its 5 oclock somewhere

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Poster: splue Date: Jul 30, 2011 9:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey

no its no xperiment, because Tollundism (i think) has started
an account in my name/ i dont know how he can do that because
i thot only one email could be an account name/ i think he crossed a line into ILLEGAL / i hope homeland defense & the FBI r tracking him!!! do u have the ability 2 shut his account??? who is the forum moderator here/ like on Noisecollector its Noisecollector??

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 30, 2011 9:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey

Splue, I don't know if you're Kochman -- I'm mixed on that -- but if you are, I vote for you to be the personality that the others are absorbed into, a la the denoument of Sybil. You're generally more clever than the others.

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Poster: splue Date: Jul 30, 2011 9:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey, wake up plz

look, im being serious/ can u be??? i asked u a question 2
whether u can block Tollundism's posts/ he has begun a new account using my name. i dont want comments about clevness r u
even listening????????? who is the gd moderator???/thx

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 31, 2011 9:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Sorry, my bad

.

This post was modified by William Tell on 2011-07-31 16:45:41

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Jul 31, 2011 2:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey, wake up plz

I am gross and perverted Im obsessed n deranged I have existed for years But very little had changed I am the tool of the government And industry too For I am destined to rule And regulate you I may be vile and pernicious But you can't look away I make you think Im delicious With the stuff that I say I am the best you can get Have you guessed me yet? I am the slime oozin out From your tv set You will obey me while I lead you And eat the garbage that I feed you Until the day that we don't need you Don't got for help...no one will heed you Your mind is totally controlled It has been stuffed into my mold And you will do as you are told Until the rights to you are sold That's right, folks.. Don't touch that dial Well, I am the slime from your video Oozin along on your livinroom floor I am the slime from your video Cant stop the slime, people, lookit me go[ Lyrics from: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/f/frank+zappa/im+

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Poster: bkidwell Date: Jul 30, 2011 9:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey, Guys, I Finally Figured It Out!

Hey AR, I don't think it's true that there has been no interaction other than "those" posts. I think during the past 12 hours or so there was a pretty good discussion of listening choices that segued into comments about Dick Latvala's skills as a GD listener. It came out of the thread where I was asked about 72 PITB recommendations and has some good comments I think.

I don't perceive things on this board as an "experiment" so much as a reflection of the nature of Grateful Dead Scene - there have always been really weird and peculiar aspects to the sociology of GD culture, I think. Even back in the early days, there was plenty of stuff like drug busts, freakouts, ripoffs, protests, along with the happy moments.

By the time I started going to shows, attending a concert was sort of like traveling through a war zone - between the scammers, gate crashers, cops, kids partying too hard and losing it, the scene surrounding the venues was more of a hell than a heaven.

I think these kind of tensions between glory and tragedy are central to the music the band made, their history, and the sociology of Deadheads. As a result, I perceive the issues here (which I don't actually understand, some kind of ancient drama involving other forums and sock-puppetry) as just part of the long-term dynamics.

It would be nice if the signal to noise ratio was better, but it seems that the archive admins don't particularly care about the content of this forum. These forums are pretty weird anyway, the fact that you have to rely on the search feature to browse old threads is pretty lame. Obviously it is custom, in-house forum software someone wrote that doesn't get much development attention.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Jul 31, 2011 12:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey, Guys, I Finally Figured It Out!

A few brief notes:
This forum attracts these types sometimes - they come, squat a while with our encouragement, and go, probably to return someday. I consider it more open-internet-forum culture than GD-scene culture; at any rate, this is typical activity in the forum's history. Indeed, their posting behavior & strategies are markedly similar each time; but I have no interest in their identities.

My policy in general is to keep quiet, not reply to them, & just attend to my own posts. It's easy to spot the fakes & non-contributors here, and even easier to ignore their posts if you can shake the annoyance. Other people react differently & like to get involved in replies & arguments - drama is its own reward, after all! But eventually it passes.

The Archive moderators have no interest in what goes on here - it is truly our 'free zone' & they stopped moderating it years ago - and it takes overwhelmingly antagonistic, profane behavior to get anyone 'booted.'

The forum layout does suck and will probably never change - I'm sure when it was set up, the Archive tech folks had no idea any worthwhile, lasting discussion would happen here. But it means that people who drop in occasionally also have no idea any good discussion happens here!

There is generally less activity here on the weekends because more people post on weekdays. Maybe lots of users here just browse at work, I don't know, but I've noticed weekends tend to be much quieter as far as GD posts.

While old WELL forums may be closed, through google groups you can search old threads on the rec.music.gdead newsgroup back to the early '90s - it can be interesting to read the discussions from when the band was still active (and the circulating tapes were fewer), quite a different perspective. Deadnetcentral.com has some archived folders that has discussions going back to the late '90s as well, although I absolutely hate the layout there.

And finally, a classic line from the web:
“The Internet was created by a coalition of the military, academia and the defense industry so that Deadheads and Dylanologists would be able to trade tapes more efficiently.”

(And you know....once I got email, that probably was the first thing I used the internet for!)

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 30, 2011 10:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey, Guys, I Finally Figured It Out!

Yeah, there's actually been some really good interaction lately on GD threads; that was before Lights Out in my time zone, though. I check the important news sites first thing in the a.m. -- what's up with impending doom in DC, what's the latest on Neanderthals, what's up with the GD forum -- and that's all that had changed this morning. I think the Kochabaloo does tire people out, though they/we bounce back and ramble on as usual, and I really do assume that some days folks are just out on a hike or something. Heck, I was.

To some extent it is a reflection of the overall scene, but it's also a virtual community, and in the 21st century our minds are quite literally being remade by our use of the internet. (There was some research on that lately regarding how we store information). So I do think that what this reveals about virtual interaction, unspoken rules, places that are and aren't communities and both partake of and free people from social conventions is intriguing.

That's equivalent to the Deadhead scene, interestingly, in that the rules there were also unwritten and, when they began to be broken, a whole strange dynamic ensued. I can think of lots of ways that the GD scene was a precursor or surprising pre-echo of aspects of virtual life. Maybe I'll write on it someday. I'm wondering if Barlow has put down any thoughts on that somewhere.

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Poster: bkidwell Date: Jul 30, 2011 10:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: communities

There are many very interesting connections between the GD and the development of digital networks and communities. Some of these have been written about tangentially but I don't know of anything that focused on it as a main subject. Let me list a few I've read about or noticed:

1) Barlow and the EFF - this is one of the central strands, because the EFF is incredibly important and is directly connected to the "anarchist" strain within the GD and freak communities.

2) Deadheads as online pioneers on the WELL and BBSes and usenet - during the 80s, due to the overlap between San Francisco and silicon valley as well as the overlap between college students and Deadheads, GD fans were some of the first to start using networked computers for "nontechnical" purposes. This is an area of research I am very interested in - are there archives available of all the early online discussions of the band?

3) Tape trading and the culture of free and open source software - this is a really interesting overlap. Within the world of computing, one of the most important movements was started by Richard Stallman and his Free Software Foundation, dedicated to creating software that users are free to share and modify. The core ethos of free and open source software is the same as that of trading live concert recordings and its acceptance by the Grateful Dead. The connections aren't entirely direct, but I think it isn't too far from the truth to say that the ideas about the benefits of cooperative sharing of information pioneered by the GD and fans are partly responsible for software like the Linux kernel, the Firefox web browser, the Apache web server, the Android mobile OS, the VLC media player, and the whole rest of the world of software that users can share freely and improve by modifying the source code.

4) P2P music distribution. The creation of "tape trees" online where multiple heads would agree to make copies of shows and mail them on to other heads who would make copies and mail them on to yet more heads according to a prearranged trunk-and-branches scheme was a forerunner of modern p2p filesharing protocols like bittorrent which distribute the work of copying information across the network between multiple nodes.

I think there are some more that I have in mind but my brain just ran out of steam power.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jul 31, 2011 5:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: communities

Very interesting ... thanks to both of you for dragging some useful thoughts and information out of this!!

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 30, 2011 11:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: communities

Exactly -- some of which I knew, some of which I didn't. There are other similarities in a more amorphous way, too.

1) Both places are in some sense virtual zones that you can enter and exit at will, and where you take on a kind of "avatar" that is an expression of yourself but not your whole self (the "dressing up" aspect of shows);

2) The online world allows people to "follow around" their interests and meet up with the likeminded, be it in regards to the GD or quilting or lhasa apso dogs, in a shared cultural space where there is a kind of automatic and rather democratic acceptance;

3) There is a bit of a free space for insanity, and there can be genuine danger;

4) People who participate in the experience can reshape time and space, or feel as if they are ... another way of saying that places like the forum are a great way to procrastinate :-)

I'm sure there are more. That's all I can think of now. I could probably babble on, LOL, but time to do some non-virtual stuff already!

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jul 31, 2011 5:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey, Guys, I Finally Figured It Out!

Was just thinking when you get done with Bob's biography, you better get in touch with Barlow on that :) sounds like a good idea.

I dunno ... lately the trash talk here has gotten REAL tiresome. I understand the moderators don't want to actually moderate. It seems there is simply nothing we can do, in the absence of moderation. This situation surely drives people off.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 31, 2011 7:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey, Guys, I Finally Figured It Out!

No kidding. Maybe that's the point. Who knows.

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Poster: boltman Date: Jul 31, 2011 7:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey, Guys, I Finally Figured It Out!

Been hangin' around for years and love the GD info, but when things degenerate as they have for the last few weeks, I hear the opening chords of "Estimate Prophet" and remember that this has always been a part of the GD scene.